- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
At Apple’s secretive Global Police Summit at its Cupertino headquarters, cops from seven countries learned how to use a host of Apple products like the iPhone, Vision Pro and CarPlay for surveillance and policing work.
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Not just clickbait, the title is maliciously wrong.
The article is about Apple holding developers conferences with cops with the purpose of developing apps tailored to them, there’s nothing about users privacy.
A business trying to enter a new market, what a weird concept eh?
Took me several reads of the headline to start with.
Then connecting it to the article contents, at least this is “accurate clickbait” (if there is such a thing). It actually describes what’s going on, we just interpret it differently initially because of current circumstance (which I suppose you could say is the fldefinition of clickbait).
Still clickbait, but at least it’s not an outright lie like so many, just worded to make us want to click!
I’m a bit chagrined to have been taken in by the extreme interpretation of the headline, when the milder interpretation (in a different climate) would be inoffensive.
Ffs, how far have we come when I’m showing appreciation for a clickbait headline’s milder interpretation is accurate enough to not be a lie, but just attention-grabbing?
What exactly is the surveillance part of this article? So far it seemed like a normal application developer conference deal but the page reloaded and now I only get paywall. I found myself feeling rather unsurprised.
Who would believe that a business as big as Apple wouldn’t comply with law enforcement requests in the first place? Of course they would when technically possible. They’re in the business of making money first, not defending you.
Yep, the article is about Apple showing cops how to use the tech, what apps the police in other countries is using to support their daily work and the police evaluating the use of more Apple tech in their daily duty (Carplay, Vision, etc.).
There’s nothing about spying on normal Apple users or Apple handing out your personal data to the cops in that article.
Clickbait headline.
Once you get 3/4 through this article, and get to the actual content, it’s pretty underwhelming. Apple was basically just showing cops that they could be querying their existing databases with iOS mobile and or CarPlay experiences.
That website is complete trash. It won’t even scroll for me. It just shows the badge and that’s all. This is what happens when they’re constantly trying to enforce specific user actions rather than just building a working website.
It’s like when you have a simple blog that for some bizarre reason is a single page JavaScript web app.
This title seems kind of clickbaity. Most of the native apps are for querying existing government and police databases. We’re talking about accessing records via CarPlay, as opposed to using a bulky Window’s laptop docked in a center console.
Apple is still not offering governments a backdoor into encrypted content.
Apple is still not offering governments a backdoor into encrypted content
You mean like they have to under the USA PRISM Act?
They’ll hand over unencrypted cloud data, but they are not decrypting E2EE cloud data. They literally can’t. They don’t have the key. If they had a key, it would be a monumental security vulnerability.
This is why governments and cops have dragging them into courts for years.
That key is not for locally encrypted data, locked devices or e2ee data.
https://support.apple.com/en-gb/guide/security/sec973254c5f/web
If you turn this on, Apple can’t not decrypt anything you have stored in the cloud with that key.
They’ve been doing it for data on device, not on iCloud (cloud data). They have full access to that.
Do you have a source for that?
Because Apple has had a lot of very prominent court cases about unlocking phones for cops, and they famously haven’t done that. They, like other cloud service providers, have forked over cloud storage data, that isn’t e2ee, when given a warrant.
Sure, here is the legal document from Apple by Apple of what they share with law enforcement.
Included inside is:
III. Information Available from Apple A. Device Registration B. Customer Service Records C. Apple Media Services D. Apple Store Transactions E. Apple.com Orders F. Gift Cards G. Apple Cash H. Apple Pay I. Apple Pay Later J. Apple Card K. Savings L. iCloud M. Find My N. AirTag and Find My Network Accessory Program O. Extracting Data from Passcode Locked iOS Devices P. IP Address Request Q. Other Available Device Information R. Requests for Apple Store CCTV Data S. Game Center T. iOS Device Activation U. Connection Logs V. My Apple ID and iForgot Logs W. FaceTime X. iMessage Y. Apple TV app Z. Sign in with Apple AA. Apple Push Notification Service (APNs)
https://www.apple.com/customer-letter/answers/
Quote below
Has Apple unlocked iPhones for law enforcement in the past?
No.
We regularly receive law enforcement requests for information about our customers and their Apple devices. In fact, we have a dedicated team that responds to these requests 24/7. We also provide guidelines on our website for law enforcement agencies so they know exactly what we are able to access and what legal authority we need to see before we can help them.
For devices running the iPhone operating systems prior to iOS 8 and under a lawful court order, we have extracted data from an iPhone.
We’ve built progressively stronger protections into our products with each new software release, including passcode-based data encryption, because cyberattacks have only become more frequent and more sophisticated. As a result of these stronger protections that require data encryption, we are no longer able to use the data extraction process on an iPhone running iOS 8 or later.
Hackers and cybercriminals are always looking for new ways to defeat our security, which is why we keep making it stronger.
That’s an amazing strawman argument you have there. But please, let’s stay on topic.
The topic was “Apple shares iCloud data with law enforcement, regardless of whether the iCloud data is encrypted or not”.
They don’t have to have a backdoor. They are most likely in possession of a master key to decrypt your data:
This is for non e2ee cloud data. If you turn e2ee cloud encryption on, only you can access your cloud data. A government or police agency can’t access it, but you’re also kind of fucked if you need Apple’s support to access backup. So maybe leave it off for old parents.
The various police agencies in this county aren’t quiet about using surveillance that the STAZI would blush at. The newspapers and local bloggers refuse to push the issue with the police by asking questions or doing long term journalism for the effort is not TikTok-able.
If citizens criticize the police online the police find them using digital tracking and then harass them IRL and online.
The system is broken. And it makes the people that it breaks believe that they are noble for being part of the abuse cycle.
The USA is in a bit of a pickle with privacy, guns, stochastic violence, and system decay.
Privacy =!= Protection from legal action
If you use your iPhone to conduct illicit business, the police can subpoena Apple and it will hand over your data (at least in the US).
Privacy in this context means preventing other apps from selling your data to brokers (e.g., location data) or using your phone information to do other stuff (e.g., AI training).
I believe you meant !=
Yes, thank you. It looks like the backslash just escapes the character??
I guess it depends on the client and likely instance. Over here on Startrek.website and using the Voyager client I was able to just put != with no escapes required.
Apple also has partnerships with Google, Meta, and others. Your data is being sold on that platform. It is just more formal and profitable for Apple.
This is about Apple helping build tools for policing. Not about giving over its customers data to police.
so, it’s about something slightly less bad than what they normally do?
It was just about time for this to be made public. It was like an open secret for everyone in the know.
You can also add the fact that Apple blocks all ads and trackers… except their own.
Incredible how many people skip the article and substitute their own reality before commenting.
Article says nothing about Apple allowing law enforcement access to any user data.
There has always been plenty to criticize about Apple, but some of you people see their name and just get so [TRIGGERED]
Yep.
I’d happily crap on them for being an e-waste factory, for making it insanely hard to install anything outside of their app store, etc.
This ain’t it. This is nothing.
What is the open secret? That Apple sells iPhones to the police? That’s what the article says…
Yes, finally, cops don’t need to go to an Apple store undercover or need to buy their iPhone on the black market.
The secret is finally out!
Cops use iPhones, too.
Apple is one of the biggest liar in term of privacy, juste watch some of their ads to see the “privacy focused” company as they said :
- https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=0HjDpPnxcP0
- https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=FbRUQRmvC4U
- https://inv.nadeko.net/watch?v=29eOe9L4KaU
That’s really a joke to see the apple logo at the end. They don’t about YOUR privacy, they car about THEIR profit.
The page won’t scroll for me. It’s just the badge and that’s it.
Do people actually believe Apple’s hogwash about privacy?
After reading the article, it doesn’t look like any of this contradicts what they’re been selling. Encrypted data is still locked down. IMHO, this title is fairly clickbaity.
A lot of this looks like iOS / CarPlay versions of policing / public records database software that was previously on platforms like Windows.
I don’t assume they are perfect. But I do absolutely believe they are significantly better on privacy than any other major player in the smartphone space.
Even if you don’t pay any attention to their policies and programs, the mere fact that iPhones aren’t running an OS owned by an advertising company should be enough to demonstrate this.
I agree. And if you want some level of convenience and some level of privacy I think Apple is the way to go.
For example I have the skills to use GrapheneOS but I just don’t want to deal with it and I want to still be able to use NFC payments. So iOS is the next best thing.
it’s easier to just believe in it. these people are weak (regarding privacy). I am not saying privacy is number one priority in life. It is not.
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Try vote to disband police force? So you need to worry about this kind of things anymore :)
Ooh, good idea! We’ll just make breaking the law illegal. That’ll solve everything!
