I use PayPal to be the middle man to protect my credit card information when I purchase items online.
Of course I have grown less fond of PayPal and their scammy behavior (plus the password limit is 20, wtf?)
My question; is there an alternative to paypal to buy things online (without crypto as not all stores take such things), such as privacy.com (but for Europe).
Correct mw if im wrong, but I believe privacy.com is for US, Canada region.
My bank doesn’t offer virtual credit cards sadly.
I still hope GNU taler will be more widely used. It’s basically everything you are looking for.
That looks cool but the issue would be getting merchants to implement it
Yes I think that’s the biggest issue and currently also the focus of a project called NGI Taler. Let’s see what comes out. Fingers crossed as this would be great for everyone.
Has Taler moved beyond proof of concept yet?
It’s an amazing concept btw. I read through their paper presented to the European banking system, it was interesting.
Looks great
Was going to say monero but you excluded crypto which is your best shot.
Monero
I’ve used wise.com for this sort of thing for many years (since they used to be called transferwise). Can spin up as many virtual visa cards as you need (I think it’s max 10 active at once). I also have a physical debit card with them which will do conversions at foreign points of sale from my local currency using the mid market rate and fees much lower than visa/master. Never had an issue with them, though this is more a sort of obfuscation rather than privacy
Just recently jumped ship from Revolut to Wise, because the former does not support de-googled android anymore. I love the fact that Wise can be fully managed through the web app.
Planning a trip to Japan soon and would like a credit card to pay for accommodation (I don’t have a credit card yet). Wise seems to be what I want but I’m not sure:
- Can you top up your Wise balance from your local bank account for free?
- Are conversion fees and ATM withdrawal fees abroad reasonable?
- Is their human support any good?
- How intrusive was the sign up and KYC?
I’d recommend searching about their fees this because it’s going to vary a bit based on your local currency. Their documentation on the topic is easy to read and answers your first two questions better than I could put it.
I’ve rarely had to interact with support so I couldn’t give a useful response about that in earnest. They do have local support in the two major countries in which I’ve interacted with them and it’s been fine.
The KYC process is standard for a digital money account AFAIK. I signed up in 2017 originally to handle a one-off transfer between local bank accounts in different countries, so I’d not have bothered investing much time in it if it was a hassle. I haven’t had to re-identify myself or think about it since, despite migrating across several countries, starting to use the physical card etc. I imagine I gave them my government ID though.
Thank you for the thoughtful reply! One more question: Can you really manage everything using the website? Just sounds too good to be true!
Checked out the support pages. It does get a bit complex trying to figure out if they charge for adding money via bank transfers. But I got to it! For other people wondering (only valid for EU folks):
Turns out they take the customary 1.75% on using the card to get cash from ATMs (and even take 0.50€ on top after the second time). That makes them slightly worse than established banks for this purpose.
However they offer pretty low fees on transactions with the card. While established banks still take 1.75% on every transaction, Wise currently takes 0.46% on exchanges from EUR to JPY. They don’t seem to skew the exchange rate like PayPal does either. The only drawback is they’re free to change their fee any time, while most normal banks haven’t deviated from 1,75% in forever.
To my great relief adding EUR to your Wise balance is free with a standard SEPA (EU zone) bank transfer. And they automatically convert money to other currencies as needed. Though I wonder whether you can convert in advance to make use of favorable exchange rates.
This makes it seem like Wise is a solid option. Only one data breach so far, too ;)
Yes, for a loading method which takes time to complete the conversion rate will generally be locked in from the time the transfer was initiated. You can always preview the received converted amount. Although the transfer method may vary depending on availability in the recipient account country, the various timeframes and fees (where applicable) have always been previewed accurately.
For myself I have set up MFA for payments via the app, so I will routinely be required to use the app to authenticate a payment. However other MFA methods are available. I can’t think of any other function the website itself doesn’t do.
Given there is no additional fee for converting at a foreign point of sale, I just load up in my home currency as there are free/instant methods available and convert to whichever destination currency at point of sale, ensuring to select not to have the balances converted by visa/master at terminals which have that function.
Hope you enjoy your time in Japan!
Thanks for taking the time to share, this was very helpful :D
My bank doesn’t offer virtual credit cards sadly.
If you’re just looking for virtual cards, could you just apply for a credit card with that capability? In the U.S. there are credit card providers that can do that, not sure about Canada but I figured it’d be the same there.
Otherwise the comment from /u/brrt@sh.itjust.works is spot on, all the phone apps like Google Pay already virtualize your card number so you’re not actually sharing your full details with the merchant. Or make your own prepaid debit card via a separate checking account you put a bit of spending money into.
Been looking for such an alternative too, that works in Europe
https://privacy.com/ for US https://www.revolut.com/ for EU?
Revolut exploits their job applicants: https://www.eldiario.es/economia/millennial-aspirantes-trabajar-capten-clientes-revolut_1_1880446.html
Revolut was recently in the news for stopping working on degoogled OSes. And judging by the comments, it is very app-dependent.
Revolut still works well on CalyxOS.
Yes, you can’t use it without the app, I’m on a degoogled android and had to drop them when they made that change.
Damn, can’t you even spoof the operating system name?
I heard of monzo working with virtual cards but you might need to pay a subscription with other goodies
I think Magisk could allow fooling Play Integrity in this case, but not everyone wants to root their phones.
Looks like we are doomed to use PayPal in Europe. What’s the hurdle to create a PayPal alternative?
The hurdle is that Europe tends to adopt things that are successful in the US, because it is convenient. Even most services and startups based in Europe are more or less copies of US products, with some notable exceptions of highly specialised applications. This unfortunate trend started in the 1970s, when the largest industrial players in Europe thought semiconductors were just a fad and consequently lost their competitive edge. It was seen as less risky to invest in commercially proven concepts than to actually innovate. This continues to bite us in the ass to this day.
I have a second bank account with a credit card for daily spending and online purchases. It only has a certain amount of money I expect to need for the month. If I need to make bigger purchases I’ll have to transfer the funds to it first.
Also things like Apple/Google/Amazon Pay hide CC info so you could use those instead when they are available.
@Wolfie Completely seconding the Revolut suggestion here. For privacy protection, works perfectly!
IIRC, they block 3rd Android ROMs (eg GrapheneOS) using Google’s Safety net service verification.
privacy protection with a service that’s only accessible through an ownership controlling, datamining-filled smartphone app? it was just a joke, right?
if they do this on your phone, what are they doing with your transaction data…
@ReversalHatchery I want to respectfully say that I find your answer a bit agressive in tone. I was just trying to give my best shot at an answer, even if I am not a privacy expert, as OP was really just asking for a way to conceal his Credit Card Number, or that’s what I understood.
I agree that total privacy will not be accomplished without using a custom rom and more private applications, but I feel like, for the average user, that might be too much work
sorry for that. but what I wanted to say is that revolut is a quite anti-consumer bank in my perception
Nowadays most Banks offers methodes to buy anonymous online.
https://www.safetydetectives.com/blog/best-anonymous-payment-methods/
If you got crypto Bitrefill provides gift cards.
Bitrefill, CakePay and CoinsBee are plateform where you can sell crypto for gift cards and thus use them to pay online stuff in many places that don’t accept crypto. You can also use them physically if needed.
And you can also buy virtual debit cards With crypto
