Say no to authoritarianism, say yes to socialism
Old articles are outside the scope of the politics communities since they’re about recent ones. Maybe there should be a political discussion community that can discuss old articles and relate them to the current political climate.
Edit: looks like the politics community doesn’t have that rule about recent articles like the news communities, seems like a valid post to me
You mean like living under an occupation in an apartheid state?
Hamas began twenty years into an Occupation enforced with direct and systemic violence, with the goal of ending the occupation.
What Is Hamas? - Council on Foreign Relations
What Does Hamas Actually Want? - NY Mag
Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
Hamas Election - Snopes
Your anger is definitely justified, American imperialism & Neocolonialism has and continues to devastate and exploit the Americas, Africa, the Middle East, and East Asia. I don’t support any of that.
Many Americans are duped by Manufacturing Consent done at the behest of Corporations and the Military Industrial Complex. America does everything it can to exploit nearly everyone, including its own citizens. Shout-out to Knowing Better, Hasan Poker, Noah Samsen, and GDF for good info critical of US policy and history.
I’m an advocate for a One-State Solution in Palestine with Equal Rights for both Israelis and Palestinians.
Doesn’t change the fact that the US has been supporting/funding Israel’s ethnic cleansing of Palestinians and apartheid for decades since the 60’s
Yeah, here are the main three reports. That paragraph is from this one.
B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
The summaries of the reports themselves are pages long…
Here’s a small fraction of just the summary of the Amnesty report. If you want details you will have to read it. Otherwise I do know of some videos that lay it out too.
Building on a growing body of work, Amnesty International has documented and analysed Israel’s institutionalized and systematic discrimination against Palestinians within the framework of the definition of apartheid under international law. This has aimed to determine whether discriminatory and exclusionary Israeli laws, policies and practices against Palestinians amount to apartheid as a violation of public international law, a serious human rights violation and a crime against humanity. It has done so by firstly determining Israel’s intent to oppress and dominate all Palestinians by establishing its hegemony across Israel and the OPT, including through means of demography, and maximizing resources for the benef i t of its Jewish population at the expense of Palestinians. It has then analysed the laws, policies and practices which have, over time, come to constitute the main tools for establishing and maintaining this system, and which discriminate against and segregate Palestinians in Israel and the OPT today, as well as controlling Palestinian refugees’ right to return. It has conducted this analysis by examining the key components of this system of oppression and domination: territorial fragmentation; segregation and control through the denial of equal nationality and status, restrictions on movement, discriminatory family reunification laws, the use of military rule and restrictions on the right to political participation and popular resistance; dispossession of land and property; and the suppression of Palestinians’ human development and denial of their economic and social rights. Furthermore, it has documented specific inhuman and inhumane acts, serious human rights violations and crimes under international law, committed against the Palestinian population with the intent to maintain this system of oppression and domination.
Here’s a few, it’s detailed within the Apartheid reports from Multiple Human Rights Organizations. They use the international definitions, of which there are multiple. Three main international treaties prohibit and/or explicitly criminalize apartheid: the International Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Racial Discrimination (ICERD), the International Convention on the Suppression and Punishment of the Crime of Apartheid (Apartheid Convention) and the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (Rome Statute).
Amnesty lays this out very well in the first chapter of it’s report.
B’TSelem Report with quick Explainer
Under Israeli Occupation and 50 years of dispossession Palestinians are denied civil rights and subject to Military Court
At the mercy of Settler Violence, Torture and Abuse in Interrogations, have No freedom of movement, and also denied Water stolen and extorted by the occupying forces.
Palestinian Labor is also heavily exploited as they have no workers rights either: Haaretz, MEE, 972, CMEC
Considering the extent of the Settlements in the west bank, I don’t see how any other option would be realistic. But it absolutely needs a lot of international pressure for it to work, and it would be quite complicated to put into practice.
The settlements represent land-grabbing, and land-grabbing and peace-making don’t go together, it is one or the other. By its actions, if not always in its rhetoric, Israel has opted for land-grabbing and as we speak Israel is expanding settlements. So, Israel has been systematically destroying the basis for a viable Palestinian state and this is the declared objective of the Likud and Netanyahu who used to pretend to accept a two-state solution. In the lead up to the last election, he said there will be no Palestinian state on his watch. The expansion of settlements and the wall mean that there cannot be a viable Palestinian state with territorial contiguity. The most that the Palestinians can hope for is Bantustans, a series of enclaves surrounded by Israeli settlements and Israeli military bases.
So a two-state solution is no longer a viable option and that is why I have become a supporter of the one-state solution, a single state with equal rights for all its citizens. Ideologically, I don’t have any problem with a one-state solution. Ideologically, it is very attractive, it is a noble vision of two communities living in harmony in one space with equal rights for all its members. But, I am not naïve enough to think that the one-state solution is a realistic prospect because there is no support for a one-state solution in Israel. And if pushed really hard I think Israel would withdraw to the wall on the West Bank and annex whatever bits it wants of the West Bank. It would annex the main settlement blocks in Ma’ale Adumim, and the whole area around Jerusalem, and it would do so unilaterally rather than have a one-state so I am not in the least bit optimistic that the one-state solution is a viable proposition. But this is where I stand and I blame Israel for eliminating the alternative of a two-state solution.
- Avi Shlaim 2017
Do you mean the one-state solution where it’s a binational state with equal rights for Israelis and Palestinians or the One-state solution Israel prefers where there are no Palestinians?
Well if you’re interested in learning more, you have plenty of places to start
I looked at the episode synopsis list. I can’t tell who’s making the podcasts or their credibility. From the look of it doesn’t seem as in-depth as I would expect, I don’t see a mention of settler Colonialism. Maybe it’s a good place to start. But if that’s where you learned (falsely) that Palestinians have been wanting genocide, while also leaving out all the other events I referenced; sorry but I don’t consider it a good source compared to actual Historians that have exhaustively researched all this. Personally, I recommend the work of Ilan Pappe. He uses Israeli sources, Arab sources, official Israeli documentation, and oral history to show a very comprehensive and detailed history of the conflict. The book A History of Two Peoples has a lot of information since the early Zionists settlements in the 1920s. He also has multiple books on audible if you’d prefer to listen than read.
If you click the history link you’ll see even more sources about both sides of the conflict. You can look at any of the sources to learn more. If you want a genuine history of the conflict, I suggest you look at the works by new Historians Ilan Pappe, Rashid Khalidi, or Avi Shlaim. Why would I listen to a podcast over the works of actual Historians on the subject.
Genocide is neither the historical goal, the official goal, the stated goal of the Oct 7th attack, or within the means of Hamas. It’s a bad question. And it ignores the will of Palestinians too, which you can see from the polls I also linked.
The culmination of the apartheid is the expulsion of Palestinians from 1947, the martial law and military rule on the Palestinians within Israel proper since 1948, the decision to occupy and settle the west bank and Gaza strip in 1967, and the development of military control and maintenance of the apartheid in the Occupied Palestinian Territories to this day. Hamas emerged in 1988 from the first Intifada, after 21 years of Israeli Occupation. If there was no occupation, there wouldn’t be any resistance to occupation.
What do you mean it predates the apartheid? That’s a revisionist history of the founding of Israel. Perhaps you’re referencing the Azzam Pasha misquote (Haaretz on misquote) or the slogan From the river to the sea which is no call for genocide. Plus, there were no military plans by the Arab Legion either for genocide. In fact, Ben-Gurion and King Abdullah colluded to partition Palestinian territory. Maybe you mean The Grand Mufti and Nazi Propaganda Time, Haaretz, WaPo, yet he had quickly dwindling support after his expulsion and visit to Nazi Germany. After all, 12,000 Palestinians fought against Nazi Germany in WWII: Haaretz, JPost, a magnitude more than his Personal Holy War Army.
On the other hand, The Concept of Transfer goes back to 1882 by Zionist Leaders. As during the British Mandate, Forced Displacement by the unofficial Transfer Committee and the JNF led to 100,000 displaced Palestinians. Which continue today 972mag, MEE, Haaretz. Leading to the development of Plan Dalet which included hundreds of (Declassified) Massacres. (Details of Plan C (May 1946) and Plan D (March 1948) )
While Ben-Gurion was advocating for partition to acquire as much palestinian land as possible, the Palestinian leadership repeatedly argued to a unitary binational state.
This rhetoric that the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and apartheid are the fault of Palestinians out of self defense is a deliberate tactic to dehumanize Palestinians and justify the collective punishment and ongoing enthnic cleansing. Whether you know it or not.
Palestinian Arab Congress advocating for Unified State 1928
Peel Commission Report and Memorandum of the Arab Higher Committee advocating for Unified State 1937
Have Hamas leaders said antisemitic comments? Certainly, I’m sure some are genuinely antisemitic on top of being anti-zionist. That and their targeting of civilians has been a major reason for their lack of support by Palestinians historically.
Does that change the reality of the permanent occupation, or the apartheid laws, or the settler colonialism? No. Palestinians deserve basic human and civil rights. They deserve free and fair elections. How do you propose the conflict be resolved?
In the primary? Absolutely. It’s the only way I can demand more from Biden as a representative. These are voters who went out of their way to get up and vote for the democratic primary, just not for Biden. This is a huge way to put pressure on Biden and the DNC. These are committed voters protesting within the democratic party. This is the only way democratic voters can put pressure on Biden to change course.
The National is very different, we don’t have a choice but to vote for Biden or domestic fascism. I will of course vote for Biden and urge others to as well during the National election. Not a third party or Trump in the National, Biden is the only real option.
This is the reality of our shitty FPTP democracy.
Not true. Basically, they want an end to the apartheid.
Is is a complicated history but even the Hamas founding charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. That’s a lie, and also intentionally ignores the 2017 Revised charter. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised version too. Hamas has committed atrocious acts, there’s no need to make things up about Hamas to show they’ve done terrible things. Ending the occupation and having a Palestinian election for the Palestinian people to choose their own leadership is the way to diminish support for Hamas and other Armed resistance groups. Further terrorizing the West Bank and Gaza will only increase their support, which has been shown historically not only within the Occupied Palestinian Territories but throughout history.
Hamas founding charter and Revised charter 2017
History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012
Gaza Blockade is still Occupation
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