Hello Selfhosted - I’m writing to y’all asking for recommendations for a retailer that will properly pack spinning platter HDDs for shipping. These devices are sensitive to impacts, and since I’m intending to use them for critical data archiving, they need to be packed with appropriate padding! Newegg is apparently incapable of understanding this.
In particular I am looking for WD Red Plus drives, 2x of them, 10TB apiece.
To name and shame Newegg, I have now gotten two shipments of these from them, around $400 each time, and they have botched the packaging so badly on both that I would never accept and trust these drives. The first RMA I requested included notes about exactly how their packing failed, and about how these devices need to be treated better, which were entirely disregarded when they packed the second round.
Who can I buy from that will take their clients’ purchases seriously?!
You must log in or # to comment.
HDDs from the factory should come in a parked state, that means they don’t require any additional packaging apart from what they come in.
Don’t HDDs usually come just in antistatic bags?
All the drives I ever purchased came in just a plain box with packing materials and the drive in some antistatic bag. So I assume the retailer gets big loads of disks from the manufacturer/reseller and unpacks them and then ships them individually and thus packs them on demand.
What you’ve purchased are OEM drives. They are shipped in big boxes with other drives, slotted into foam slots. Generally a good packer will bubble wrap the shit out of the bare drives when they ship them to you. Retail box drives aren’t shipped like this.
You have drives packaged like other stuff with a colourfull box with marketing and all that? All the drives I have ever bought in store or online were shipped or handed over to me like I described above.
SSDs and external hard drives usually have some kinds of retail box here, but I don’t think HDDs usually do. Granted, I have never bought the normal consumer tier drives, like Seagate baracuda or WD Blue so maybe that’s why. For personal use in my PC, I usually stick with Seagate Ironwolf or WD Red.
Parked state doesn’t mean much when the box the drive is in is launched 20ft during the shipping process.
I got one recently by B&H Photo Video, may have got lucky but the drive was brand new and untampered, and was in plastic cushioning, in a fitted box, inside 6" of airbags, inside another box. Delivered by DHL Express.
B&H is one of my favorite vendors, but god damn do they go overboard with the air cushions in their packages.
This is a weird post, the HDD boxes are already packaged in a way that works well for shipping. Also the retailer doesn’t necessarily ship the package either. I think you’re asking more about shipping companies.
Apparently it’s indeed a weird post. I’ll buy from the shop provided by several of the commenters who answered the question I asked. Really uninterested in describing to a user named “cyberpunk” of all things, why wanting a minimum of care for my purchases is actually not too much to request, I think every possible thing I might say has been said.
I felt my comment was rational based on the information presented, just trying to understand. I’m surprised it made you so unhinged.
I’m also not really sure why some random internet handle/username has set you off, it’s not like my username is “I_drop_then_ship_yo_HDDs_lol”.
To me, the username cyberpunk necessarily suggests someone who understands abuse by corporations and our gradually worsening treatment by them, which is relevant to me with this topic. With that said, making a big deal over someone’s username is just such classic Internet cringe, and I apologize, that was silly and unnecessary.
Edit: even just explaining myself and apologizing gets downvotes, it appears I have torched any good will available here.
And there he is, the douchebag shines through.
I haven’t bought an HDD in a long time, but is the drive’s packaging itself not designed for shipping? The last one I bought had a ton of empty space and shock-absorbing packaging inside the box.
I guess that’s the heart of some of the issues one or two others are taking with me having a problem here. When it’s said like you did, it seems like a reasonable take to me.
Here’s my take on the physics itself - when an object is inside a container significantly larger than it and free to bounce around, and then put through the shipping process, that introduces a lot of collisions that are admittedly usually small, but strictly speaking mathematically related to the magnitude of the impacts and the available space to move (accelerate before stopping, again and again), and reduced by the inner (OEM) package padding/shock absorption. Those collisions largely do not exist if the object simply has no freedom to move in its containing package - it’s just the less frequent collisions with even further damping (containing packaging offering additional shock absorption rather than free travel) when the containing box is moved. The packaging by the mfg may be designed to absorb impacts to appropriate degrees, but it can’t be argued that unknown stresses (due to the unknown handling by the shippers) have not been applied due to that freedom of movement (in my cases here in 2 dimensions), that would not have occurred if the OEM boxes were packaged in their container such that no freedom of movement was available. I have worked briefly with vibrations in industrial and once a small scale system, even, and we all underappreciate the effects of even just vibrations. Stabilization of sensitive components is a hard problem.
It’s not that expensive at all to just close up that space reliably with every order of HDDs. If you know you sell ~expensive HDDs, do that. I am, strictly speaking, just asking for a retailer that does that. But FWIW I guess I should acknowledge that the physics and relevant questions are interesting.
Edit: corrected a typo that inverted a detail, added a few clarifying words
You’re perceiving some kind of blame from those users asking, but tbh you didn’t make your situation clear in your original post and they’re fair questions.
And I’ll echo most here and suggest you stop buying from that provider. It seems like the obvious choice. NewEgg isn’t exactly the paragon of customer service.
Yeah, I have to acknowledge that I got needlessly defensive / combative. One of those, the poster just opened by essentially saying “I didn’t read your whole post, but here’s my take…” and that irritated me, but I eventually even tried to end amicably with that person. I was impatient and defensive throughout, though, I can do better, no argument there.
You’re also right that I must have failed to spell out the situation well, that’s 100% on me. And yes, moving away from Newegg is the stated goal of the post I made, that’s not really advice (and I understand this is probably the kind of comment that rubs people the wrong way).
I guess I don’t understand the amount of patience I’m expected to have with people who are not engaging with the point of my post (recommending more careful HDD retailers) but instead questioning whether the post itself has merit. If someone asks “how do I make a casserole” and I respond with “well, you haven’t even proven that a casserole is the right dish to make”, I’m not going to be surprised or offended if that person who asked the question gets irritated with my input.
Good reply, we’ve all been there. Hope your next disks survive their journey.
Thanks for the grace and understanding, I do care about the quality of dialog across Lemmy and I will endeavor to be less prickish in the future (for anyone who is reading).
I’ve had good luck with ServerPartDeals.com.
I just got 5 drives from them and both orders were packed well.
Thank you! For reference, here’s the copy on their site indicating how their drives are shipped, this is MUCH more what I would expect (though technically this does seem to leave them the option of just using air pockets?) :
Our drives ship in 225lb per sq inch pressure-rated boxes, specifically tested for impact. Inside the box you’ll find suspension brackets, foam inserts, or air filled pockets that secure the drive in place and prevent any possible impact from movement in the shipping process. The drive itself is sealed in an anti-static bag that protects the drive from any electromagnetic interference.
Ordered a number of drives from them recently. This is what they showed up in. Foam at the top and bottom of the smaller boxes, with each drive in a bag. Then both smaller boxes were in the larger box with some bubble wrap. Dates on each drive ranged from July 2022-July 2024.
I can back that up; the drives I ordered were packaged in an antistatic bag, surrounded by an air filled cushion thing, in a hard cardboard box. (Assuming what I got was the “air pockets” it’s a plastic sleeve made of many pressurized sections that completely encloses the drive; definitely adequate IMO. I can dig up a pic if you want).
Thank you, this is the kind of information I posted for, I will almost certainly buy from these folks unless something more compelling surfaces.
They use air pockets but they are of the stiffer variety that are fitted around each drive, not the super cheap and thin air pockets that just get jammed in to fill the box.
Awesome that is perfectly suitable thanks!
Ordered two drives from them, came in very well packaged and even included the PWDIS adapter. Very good deals. Could throw the box across the yard and the drives would probably survive.
Amazons renewed drives usually come well packaged. Antistatic bag, suspended inside very thick air pocket thing that completely encases the drive, inside a good cardboard box.
I tried to buy an external 20TB drive from Amazon twice. First one that came, I bought refurbished; the drive had been shucked and replaced with a 146GB drive.
Second one I bought was 20TB, but was clicking and grinding from the moment I turned it on. When I tried to initiate a return saying “drive is clicking and grinding, indicating that it’s failing,” their support bot helpful informed me that a clicking and grinding drive usually indicated drive failure.
They did accept the return for the latter. They also accepted a return for the former, but it took literal months and several support interactions where the (seemingly real) agents actively lied to me.
I’ve had okay luck with smaller Amazon drives in the past, but will have trouble recommending them for this kind of purchase in the future.
Totally reasonable. I don’t shuck anymore, so I don’t have the concern of getting the wrong disk.
I’ve personally never had a problem with their returns before. But I haven’t had a doa disk out of their “renewed” internal disks yet.
That’s all I’m looking for and seems like a reasonable thing to expect, I’d prefer to avoid Amazon but am glad to know of that option, thank you! And to be clear, think you could confirm if you mean sold/fulfilled by Amazon or if you’re thinking of a 3rd party seller using Amazon the platform?
Specifically the renewed drives sold by Amazon. They are the returned/refurbished drives. I’ve probably bought 10 or so in the last few years and that’s how they’ve all come. I haven’t had a failed drive out of them yet. (Seagate 22tb and WD reds 18tb)
This isn’t the fault of retailers. Shipping things is hard. It entirely depends on the people in transit willing to do their jobs, and sometimes you just don’t get lucky.
It is the fault of the retailers because it’s well known that things don’t always get handled with care in shipping, especially when you’re talking about automated machines and people handling millions of boxes. They’re the ones packing these items to ship and damaged items are needless waste. I buy car parts online and they manage to pack these often heavy and awkwardly shaped parts correctly so that they don’t sustain damage. Newegg could do the same with some HDDs.
I’m sure they can and do. I have never received a defective drive purchased new, through I don’t even know how many desktops, servers, and storage systems. Even drives preinstalled in desktops with no extra packaging have run perfectly well for years. I can count on one finger the number of hard drive failures in those desktops I’ve seen in the last decade.
I think if my business saw a $400 return for damaged goods, and I’m sure higher in cases too, I’d ensure I have a robust system to package those orders correctly the second time, no? I’m not complaining about the way it was treated in transit, but the way it was packed. It used only air bubbles, which both times (and on the same side) ruptured or deflated from elevation change, but either way left the drives just freely bouncing around their containing box. And I directly and precisely explained exactly the nature of the failure to them, with photographic evidence (as their process requires). I’m willing to acknowledge that mistakes happen, but c’mon. In addition, shouldn’t Newegg of all places know these are fragile devices, and probably savvy customers?
shouldn’t Newegg of all places
Heads up; newegg has been shit for returns for about ten years now. Their monitor return policy in particular is notorious for being bad.
Okay good to know, thanks! I have to admit I’m out of the loop on the retail landscape cuz I haven’t been making many consumer purchases for a while, until I started to prioritize my home environment more lately.
$400 is nothing for businesses. At my job, purchases under $10,000 don’t require any approval.
You haven’t said who you’re actually buying from. Any actual retailer selling new drives should be shipping them in the OEM packaging, and WD and Seagate should be packaging them just fine.
But really, hard drives aren’t that sensitive to shock. If the drive is off, the heads are parked, there’s not much that can happen unless they get absolutely slammed against something and directly impacted. I run plenty of used drives shipped in a single layer of bubble wrap with few issues. Where I do have issues (connector damage, excessive bad sectors, failed short/long/conveyance SMART tests), those I replace.
But, if this is critical data, you should always be prepared for drive failures with hot spares. Even an apparently healthy drive can suddenly stop working.
You haven’t said who you’re actually buying from
You must not have actually read the post.
I did. They bought on Newegg, which is a platform. Some items are shipped and sold by Newegg, some are third-party, just like Amazon. OP did not confirm who actually fulfilled the order in the post.
I understand it’s small potatoes, I tried to indicate that. It isn’t to me.
I also did specifically and exactly call out the seller, Newegg, and even say that I wanted to name and shame right in the initial post, so I just don’t know what you want from me there lol. Does Lemmy support the old marquee tag somehow?
Thanks for the info on your experience with drives, I admit I’m slightly uncertain there. But nonetheless I bought new, enterprise grade drives and they were rattling around unprotected in their boxes, I don’t know why I should be expected to accept that.
After all I’m literally asking for more thoughtful careful retailers if they exist. And I gave Newegg two tries to get it right with detailed explanations of the problem, I don’t think I’m being unreasonable. In this day and age and with all the terrible treatment of all of us by corporations I am just asking this community who they might like better, and my bad experience with this one. Why is that contentious?
Yes, the seller is Newegg, but they’re a marketplace like Amazon. Check who fulfills the order.
rattling around unprotected in their boxes
If they’re in OEM packaging (cardboard box and formed clamshell plastic for individual drives, I assume, since you said “boxes”) that’s totally acceptable. If you put a shock sensor in the box at the origin, you wouldn’t see anything particularly bad even if the box fell off the truck. F=m*a, and with small m (a few drives) and small a (not falling very far) then F is going to be pretty small too.
I did, I don’t remember the exact phrasing, but I ensured it was basically Newegg fulfillment (I’ve even gotten a literal Amazon box from Newegg in the past when not doing so, I do basically understand how it works).
I also understand you’re trying to be helpful, but I really don’t need the physics lesson, I double majored in physics and electrical engineering and graduated with a 3.9 GPA, I understand that equation and it’s implications a lot better than you assume, and moreover I spent a lot of years in my career with a lot of HDDs, from many sources and for many purposes. I don’t agree with you that being shipped these drives in obviously faulty outer packaging is something I should be willing to accept, at least not without seeking out more conscientious suppliers first. It’s amazing to me that people disagree with this so much about spinning platter drives - I couldn’t give a shit less about any other kind of hardware I can think of, intact OEM packaging would be fine for me.
Why do you say “obviously faulty”? Do the drives not function, or do they fail any SMART test?
NOTE: I said “obviously faulty outer packaging”. That’s twice now you’ve disregarded something I stated clearly. I did not intend to take ownership of these drives, I never opened them. It’s entirely possible all SMART tests and drop indications come up clean, but as I did not want to own these drives, it felt inappropriate to me to find out. Given how sensitive HDDs can be, and given my consumer-grade budget here (I’m spending my own money on a few important pieces of hardware, not griping over an enterprise installation that churns through drives like a runner does shoes), I am indeed sensitive to the way they are packed. The impacts that HDDs experience makes for a significant influence in its MTTF. Admittedly less so when powered off, but not at all zero! That is not controversial, it’s just engineering.
Let me put this a little differently - imagine I went to a brick and mortar, asked for some drives I couldn’t find on the display floor, and they brought out two drives, in sealed OEM packaging, in a dusty beat up box that had been through shit, and with no padding inside or anything. The employees were not being careful when carrying them either, giving little confidence that the damage looks worse than it is. It’s clear they’ve been mistreated to some extent, but no way to see from here how much.
This is an important distinction - I’m not asking if you’d be willing to buy those drives yourself. I’m asking if - when I decided not to buy those (and indeed not to test them!), would you grill me over that decision like this? Would you question me for wanting to find a retailer I can shop at that at least seems to take more care? Again, why is my preference not to receive drives in clearly mishandled and insufficiently padded packaging, so contentious?
(minor edits for clarity)
I have a robust system to package those orders correctly
This is my point. You can package your electronics as good as you want, but when it comes to hard drives, if the middle man decides to play ice hockey with your package it doesn’t matter. If you want to blame something blame Newton’s second and third Laws of Motion. 🤷♂️
No I don’t think I will, I think I’ll blame the shoddy packing which is very unlikely to successfully protect the goods, due to the well-known challenges of shipping products and especially delicate products that you’re describing, and which indeed did fail 2x in a row to protect said goods, but you do you!
I owned my own tech firm for 10 years or so. I setup any number of backup solutions with enterprise level HDDs. I’ve seen HDDs packaged impeccably. I’ve seen them come in a cardboard box with absolutely no protection and it’s an absolute crap shoot no matter what. As a matter of fact, there’s a HDD connected to a NAS attached to the computer I’m typing this out on that’s been working for over 8 years non-stop and it was one that just came direct in a cardboard box. Didn’t have a lick of paper or bubble-warp in it.
I’m not telling you not to be critical of retailers who don’t properly protect the things you buy. I’m telling you to measure your response because at the end of the day they’re incredibly fragile no matter how they’re packaged. Properly packaging doesn’t mean you’re going to get a 100% success rate. If you’re that worried about it, then find a local retailer and don’t buy them online.
Okay that is truly a useful perspective and I appreciate it. I don’t understand why asking a community dedicated to passionate enthusiasts for retailers they specifically like should be contentious, it seems like precisely the point of these communities. I will keep your perspective in mind, but I don’t intend to just accept whatever even a plurality of retailers think I should be willing to accept. I’m going to hunt down ones I like giving my business to, especially in this day and age, and I think we’d all be better off if we each did the same.
I’m not saying its contentious. I’m saying if you’re gonna be mad, be mad at the right people. And in this specific case, the retailer is probably not the only issue, so switching to another retailer really won’t help you.
I might sound like a dick, but I’m trying to help you out–telling you that even if you switch retailers, if whomever is delivering your mail is a dick, you’re not going to experience a better situation.
I’ve been through a tremendous number of hard drives over my career. I shudder to think how many.
Thanks for your input.
